Jim O'Connor Interview

view close button

[00:00:00] Welcome to The PEO Podcast, where we interviewindustry leaders to discuss all things PEO’s from compliance to technology, toclient relations, and everything in between. I'm your host, Andreas Deptolla.

But we bring a lot of fresh ideas and an alternative solutionto problems that here to for PEO is really haven't been introduced to. So ourinnovative thinking, our creativity has really been, been a key advantage forus.

Hi everyone. And welcome back to The PEO Podcast. Today I’m spendingtime with Jim O'Connor.

[00:00:39] Jim is a National Practice Leader for the PEOconsulting practice at CBIZ. We chat about master health plans, sales andattracting new talent as we begin to emerge from the pandemic.

[00:00:55] Tell us something unique about you, that yourteam at CBIZ, maybe doesn't know about you. Probably what they don't know aboutme most don't know about me is that I have $5 dogs and two cats. And so animalsnow officially outnumber, uh, the members of my family. Uh, but, um, yeah, wejust added our fifth dog, so we've got a lot of rescues.

[00:01:16] And so that's probably a, an item that mostpeople would see Booz don't know about me. We're a big dog and pet people inour family. Um, are the cats and dogs getting along? They do, interestinglyenough, they, they, they absolutely do. I can't say the same about mydaughters, but, but definitely the cats and dogs do well.

[00:01:36] I haven't took kids on here. I can, I cancertainly relate to that. Um, so, so, um, Jim, tell us about , your journey inthe industry. How did you get to the point where you are right now? Yeah, sure.So I came into the health insurance industry in 1987 as an underwriter at whenthe Prudential insurance company was in health insurance.

[00:01:58] And then I went [00:02:00] from the insurancecarrier side, came out to the brokerage consulting side, started working withPEOs as a benefits consultant to them in the mid nineties. And then. Mypartners and I sold our firm to see biz in 2009. And I've had variousleadership roles, in CBIZ, uh, throughout those years, uh, presently, um, uh,enjoy the role of national practice leader for the PEO and associationconsulting practice at CBIZ.

[00:02:30] And what specifically fascinates you about the PEOmarket, right. But what are some of the things that you're really passionateabout too? Two things come to mind. One is they're serving small employers forthe most part, right? What they typically serve employers that have less than ahundred employees, very often, less than 50.

[00:02:50] And so they think the average is probably about20, 25. If you look at the PEO industry, so small employers that would driveAmerica's economy, Right. So if we can do [00:03:00] more and more to helpsmall employers be efficient and profitable, that's good for the, ourcountries. It's, it's really important. So that is, is a real important to mefrom a mission perspective.

[00:03:11] And then from a pure business dynamicperspective, I just love the whole outsourcing model. Like I just do. I thinkthat if we can free up businesses to do what they do best, whether it's sellingwidgets or servicing this or selling that. And then pull all of the routinemundane and regulatory compliance, administrative functions out of their shopand into a PEO I think that's really a great economic, uh, equation.

[00:03:39] Yeah. You and I, we, we discussed in ourpreparation session, uh, um, you know, the, the concept of the medical masterplans within the PEO concept, right? And maybe start off like, you know, forsomebody who might not be as familiar with specific topic, like how would youexplain the concept and what kind of [00:04:00] advantages do PEO’s typicallysee?

[00:04:03] Sure. So has any swollen where things shut down?Kind of what are the benefits, you know, comp and benefits they're providing totheir employees? Health insurance is always an important part of that. And soour country has played with, you know, escalating costs and health insurance.We haven't solved this problem.

[00:04:22] And so in small employers are very, verychallenged by being able to get affordable health programs for their employees.So a PEO is an outlet for them to ideally get access to broader. Better moreaffordable coverage. And why is that? Because the PEO right. It's thinkingabout what, it's, what it's doing.

[00:04:42] It's aggregating thousands of small employersinto a larger employer. And then as a larger employer, instead of me of being,say a single employer with 20 employees, I joined a PEO and they've got 20,000employees. So them buying a health [00:05:00] insurance plan. At 20,000employees is going to afford them options and designs and pricing access thatwould not be available to me at 20 employees.

[00:05:12] Right. So, so that whole aggregation is what themaster plan is about. When you join a PEO and their master health plan. So, soyou outlined the advantages from the employer side, right? As a small group.How about from the PR side? Right. If, if I decide to go that ride route andthen offer Massa Medica plan, what are some of the advantages that I get fromthe PEO system?

[00:05:38] Sure. As a PEO, um, The primary advantage toproviding a well-run affordable master health plan, or it'd be master dental orlife and all the ancillary coverages. So you, as the PDO, providing your masterplan, your benefits, I think the advantage is, is to be market competitive,right? [00:06:00] You want to be bringing to these smaller and mid-sizedemployers.

[00:06:04] As many opportunities for better purchasing powerpricing, design access that they can't get on their own. Right? So if I'm a PDOand by the very fact that I have of this mass covered population, and I'mcoming to you as a small business owner, I'm showing you my payroll services,my administrative services, my technology.

[00:06:28] But they're going to ask, Hey, can you doanything for me on my benefits? Can you get me my benefits more affordably? So,so as a PEO, if I am able to have a successful well-run well-designed masterhealth plan, that can be a real advantage for me. But it's not without itschallenges as well. So, so now let, let's say, uh, the leadership team of PEOgets together and you're doing some, some work with them, you know, as the PEOmight think about adding a Medica master plan [00:07:00] to their portfolio,what are typical decision-making criteria that a PEO should be thinking about?

[00:07:09] Well, the first thing is you have to have scale,right? So, so if you've just got a few hundred or even just a few thousand worksite employees, you have to be able to scale. You have to be able to grow itand, and. The the, the big challenge is that there are only a handful of healthinsurance carriers that are, are open to doing PEO master plans and someregional carriers as well.

[00:07:36] But they're very selective. So if I'm the PEO andI don't have a master plan today, and I, and I'm interested in getting one, Ineed to be really cognizant of how to best position myself with those insurancecarriers. So they want me. Uh, as, as a client. And you mentioned that thatthat's a scaling effect, right?

[00:07:56] Um, generally speaking, there are obviously[00:08:00] always, uh, from what sizing perspective would it make sense for a PEO?How many lives do I need to cover in order for this to be even like interesting?Sure. So as you kind of framed it up, there was no hard and fast answer to thatquestion. And when you ask the insurance carriers that it's always the questionthey hate, they want it, they want to shy away from it because they don't wantto feel like they're not, they don't want to give the perception.

[00:08:24] They're not open for business, but here's thereality. You better have, you know, at least 1500 to 2000 employees, maybe2,500 work site employees before we even go to the table and start talkingabout that now again, the number of employees is one piece of it discussion,but you might have a very interesting niche.

[00:08:46] That you're in as a PEO and it might be anindustry vertical. It might be a geographic and industry vertical. It might be,you're only going after employers of over a certain size. So there are othermitigating factors that will [00:09:00] change that, that number that I justgave you. But if someone said, Hey, don't give me any of those other criteria.

[00:09:06] Just generally speaking. What's the number Ishould be at before I tried to go to the table with one of the major carriers,you should be around that 2,500 employee Mark at a minimum. So Jim, youessentially, you know, your role, you're kind of in between, right? The, PEO,and then you, you work with the carriers, um, and you, you mentioned that notall carriers are open to, to this, uh, concept, give us a secret sauce here.

[00:09:31] What, what is like, from, from the carrierperspective, what are they looking at? Right. If they evaluate, uh, and youalluded to some of these things, but like what, what is the process like andwhat does the carrier interested in seeing. You know, it's interesting Andres,I think that you'll appreciate that. A lot of it starts with real non-healthinsurance criteria.

[00:09:50] It's looking at the business itself. It's lookingat the PEO itself, the leadership. You know, are they either highlyprofessional? How do they [00:10:00] manage their business? Right. Are theyfinancially very strong? You know, their worker's comp plan? Do they run itwell? Is risk management important to them? What is their business strategy?

[00:10:11] What is sort of growth strategy? Um, are theytake all comers really don't care who their clients are or just, just takeanybody or are they selective? Do they have their own underwriting approach to,to bring it on their clients. You know? So, so from a business perspective, theinsurance carriers want to make sure that because these become partnerships,right, when you're a PEO and you now have a master health plan with one ofthese carriers, they want to make sure that you are a good partner for them.

[00:10:43] Being, you know, being cognizant of bringing ingood business. Right. And so, so the secret sauce is to be able to demonstrateto that insurance carrier decision-making team, that I will be a good partner,that I has the PDO. I [00:11:00] have the right people, the right processes inplace to, to manage a master health plan.

[00:11:06] I've got the right gross strategy. So that. Youcan see the future that I'm going to be adding thousands of employee ease overthe course of time. And it's adding profitable employees. That'll be good risk,not, you know, anybody. Right. And, and, and that. It's not just about thepeople and processes internally, but you know, you know, self plug here right.

[00:11:32] Are using the right consultants, the rightunderwriting tools and teams outside that are knowledgeable about master plans,know how to construct and manage them. And so those are the things that you,you better have those boxes checked before you get to the table to have thediscussion. And it's like, as if you were looking at making an acquisition of acompany.

[00:11:55] You're gonna look at the character and the, andthe management team. You're gonna look at the [00:12:00] business managementstyle and structure and the growth plan. We'll think of the insurance company.They're looking at a partner email to better bring all those things to them asan instant comparison, right?

[00:12:11] Like, uh, the, the M and a acquisitions, right.You know, oftentimes we see that, uh, companies that are active on the M and aside, they kind of have their playbooks, right. Or their frameworks. Right.You're you look into the finance balance sheet and whatnot. You look intoculture, you look at different KPIs and whatnot.

[00:12:33] Just something like that exists, like, like a,like a clear framework that you work through with specific clients, um, assetpreparing, um, for, for the underwriting process, is that a long process whereyou say like, Hey, typically it's six to 12 months. Tell us more about that.How do you, how do PEO’s prepare for that underwriting process to be?

[00:12:54] I think you hit on it, right? You, your map out.Kind of the playbook, the [00:13:00] checklist, you know, what I justverbalized and, and other criteria as well. And, and you do that, that SWATanalysis, right? In terms of strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats, asit relates to the PEO itself. And where are they strong right now?

[00:13:13] Where do they have deficiencies? And if thosedeficiencies are addressable, how long would it take to address them? Butexamples might be, you know, that they're not large enough. Right. And sothey've got it. They've got to get larger. Um, or they might have weakness intheir, um, CFO controller, finance department.

[00:13:33] So they've got to upgrade the personnel. Sothere's things like that. And so underneath it, It's going to be that timeframeis going to be variable based upon what the starting point is for that PBL. ButI think your six to 12 to 18 months is probably not unreasonable bye-bye and,you know, you mentioned earlier you're managing risk as one, uh, importantelement.

[00:13:53] How should PEO think about prospects and newclients that come onto their [00:14:00] platform in that context as the PEO isdoing field underwriting, right? They're looking again, similarly. The, theclient's ability to pay their bills. They should be looking at again, the, the,the management team, the structure of that perspective employer coming onto theplan.

[00:14:17] What is their philosophy towards providingbenefits? Does that employer provide benefits today? Are they contributing ameaningful amount towards the cost of the health insurance, which demonstratesit's important to them as part of their comp and benefits strategy to attractand retain talent. Right?

[00:14:36] So, so that's the type of field underwritingthat, that first and foremost they should be doing. And then there will be themore formal group health questionnaires, where, where they're vetting. The riskprofile, the health risk profile of an employer. Um, and so those are the typesof things that PBMs will do to, to look to straight out or, [00:15:00] orattract the best risks into their master plan.

[00:15:03] So we talked a lot about the, you know, the, theprocess and the, the, the advantages. For, for the PEO for the employer groups,if you look at the other side of the coin, so to speak, like, are there certaininstances where you say like, you know, a medical massive plan is not the rightfit for the PEO outside of you talked obviously about the sizing or the othercriteria, but you said like, Hey, this is probably not the best strategy topursue for sure.

[00:15:30] So what do you think about it? There's proximally900 or some odd PEO’s in the country and less than 10% of them have a masterhealth plan. So you think about that, right? You've got about 900, some odd PDOand about 80 or so a master health plan. So what are the rest of them doing?Right. So you have to solve for it if you're really want to be in the game.

[00:15:52] So not every employer and not a repeat audio isgoing to have master plan as a solution. Right? If I'm an employee, if I'm aPEO with a master [00:16:00] plan and I'm vetting my. Employer groups comingin, employers that are not going to be a fit for the master plan might besomebody again, like we said earlier where the employer's not contributingmuch.

[00:16:10] So therefore they've got low participation ormaybe we, we done the medical screening and they've got a few significantclaims. So we don't want to bring them into the master plan. So then we'regoing to do what we call open market. That's where you bring them to thetraditional small group marketplace that's available in all 50 States from allthe insurance carriers.

[00:16:29] So you go open market, right? If I'm a, if I'm aPTO that does not have a master plan really, then, then one of the only thingsavailable to me is master is open market. Or other specialty programs, uh, suchas the health benefit Alliance, which is a program we have, or other type ofalternative health programs that are available to two PEOs.

[00:16:50] The key is if a PEO has a master plan beingthoughtful about which groups are the right fit for the master [00:17:00] andif not having alternatives to pivot too. So you're still solving. The healthbenefit need for that employer, client, like a hybrid model there. Right. Andflexibility, uh, can be really key. Uh, so thank you for, for these insightinto the massive medical plans.

[00:17:19] I want to, to, um, shift our conversation alittle bit and ask you specifically about CBIZ in the PEO world, right? Whatis, what is your unique value proposition to PEO’s and how do you dodifferentiate, um, to smaller players in the market? So, what I'm most proud ofis in the last three years, we've gone from having one PEO client to now weserve over two dozen PEO clients.

[00:17:42] And so that demonstrates a pretty rapid growth ina fairly short period of time. And, and the key to it has been, I would say afew things. One is our innovative thinking. No disrespect to any of mycompetitors or some tremendous ones out there, but we bring a lot of fresh[00:18:00] ideas and alternative solutions to problems that here to for PBO isreally haven't been introduced to.

[00:18:07] So our innovative thinking or creativity hasreally been, been a key advantage for us. The other is our flexibility. We'renot an all or nothing shop. We can be the consultant on a master plan andsomebody else is doing the actuarial and risk underwriting work. We can do therisk and underwriting work and not be the consultant.

[00:18:28] We can do all your open market quoting, but notbe involved in your master plan point being we're a very much an openarchitecture firm. And so you pick and choose from our menu, what it is thatthat you need. So if you've got. Current partners that are serving you well,but there are gaps. We can fill the gaps, or if you want us to displace apartner that maybe isn't serving you as well, we can do that as well.

[00:18:54] So we're very flexible in that respect too. Theother key area is. We're very [00:19:00] hands-on and then executing on thestrategies that we are putting in place. Particularly from a sales perspective,we will partner with the PEOs sales team and go to market with them and supportthem actually on sales calls, when it comes time to discuss the benefitofferings.

[00:19:19] And what the value proposition is for theirclients out in the field. First of all, just very tactical. You said like you,you can support your, your PEO clients per sales calls, right? Yeah. Allmedical offerings. Um, is there any limitation to that? Does it has to be acertain size of the client or how do you, how do you typically structure that?

[00:19:40] No, to be honest, we tell our PEO clients,whether it's two employees or 2000. Uh, we'll support you on every sales call.Make us a part of your team. I talked about first chair, second chair all thetime. My, my team that will hear this podcast will, will roll their eyes rightnow. Cause I'm always talking first chair, second chair.

[00:19:57] And that PEO sales rep is first-year leading[00:20:00] the call. It's his or her relationship. But we're second chair,we're the subject matter expert about the benefits. And so when it's time forthat to be the topic discussed, that that's our role in that meeting. So, andyou mentioned that, you know, over the years, you you're, you're obviouslyworking with special off like different PEO’s here, and you mentioned thatfresh ideas is important, right?

[00:20:22] Whether that's coming from, from the PEO or like,you know, from, CBIZ, I would be interested in hearing, like, what have youseen over the years? What are certain concepts that our audience should thinkabout. Right. So things that you said like, Hey, these three or four PEO’s thatare very successful in the market have implemented successfully.

[00:20:41] Is there any, any concept that, um, you know, we,we should be thinking about here. Yeah, for sure. I would say that the firstanswer, the question is comprehensive in their, in their approach. So, so makesure that their offering is as well-rounded, as it, as it can be. [00:21:00]Don't leave any of the gaps that, that could otherwise be filled by eitherproduct or services.

[00:21:05] So that that's kind of price of entry. That'sbasic, but here's the real answer your question. So with that, having beensaid, it's their positioning. It's their go to market positioning. Too manyPEOs are still stuck in that product sell mindset, right? They feel likethey're selling a product that, that that's a transactional nature of a sale.

[00:21:27] And I think, and I don't say thisdisrespectfully, but I think that comes out of the payroll selling mentality PEOis more holistic, as we said at the top of the discussion. And so that the mostsuccessful PEOs over the years have cracked the code on teaching their salespeople.To sell value service and to be, and this is often an overused term in sales,but it's true being consultated listening to the buyer and what it is they'resaying they need and then solving for those needs.

[00:21:59] As opposed [00:22:00] to come into the door andjust selling product, product product. So the most successful PEOs, it's moreabout the messaging and their communication and how they go to market. Arethere any resources that you can recommend our audience here, whether it'slike, you know, certain say it's, I mean, uh, a book about sales, aboutpositioning, uh, anything that, that comes to your mind?

[00:22:22] You know, I, I, I don't think it's out of themarket yet. And, and, uh, but I know that. Jason Randell, the CEO of quest gois coming out with a great book that I think is going to be a transformative tothe industry. I would also say that Naviaux has some great conferences pace.One of the other associations in the, in the industry has, has, uh, someinformative, uh, No conferences, and there are some tremendous advisers outthere.

[00:22:47] I think of Johnson, suey, I think of others. Andagain, Dan McHenry, I just think of other there's there's a lot of tremendousresources out there that have been in the industry and know the industry wellthat PEOs can take advantage of. [00:23:00] Gavin. W what would you, would yousay S certainly resonates, right? If you think about, uh, the best players, noteven in the PEO markets, right?

[00:23:08] Uh, but holistically, often companies that havefound their niche, right. They're very much known for, we are the PR companyfor this region. For this specific vertical, right. And then your clients know,Hey, you know, the partner really understands me here and can be, yeah, we canenter into it in a really fruitful and successful relationship.

[00:23:31] No, it's like anything else you need to kind ofvet through who the pretenders are versus who the folks are that really knowwhat they're talking about. And that that's like any industry, right? That'slike any business. Just like there's, there's good. PEO’s there's average PEO’sand there'll be bad opinions or there's good consultants, average consultantsand bad consultants.

[00:23:50] There's good interviewers, bad interviewers. And,and, and then there's you, you know, above, uh, above the rest, Andrea, so,yeah, so as, as we, uh, you know, [00:24:00] look looking now in the secondquarter, what are, what are some of the, the priorities that you are currentlydiscussing with some, all of your clients, right?

[00:24:08] Uh, for the remainder of the year, uh, and to getready. Fall, you know, what, what we hopefully can call the post pandemic, whatyou have, uh, what are some strategic initiative there that you're currentlyworking on it's daily now, and multiple times a day, the conversations areabout the, the. Significant ramping up of hiring and being ready for this, thisonslaught of hire.

[00:24:31] And I, I, again, I'm with PEO’s every day onmeetings and calls and, uh, gun restaurant owners talking about hiring 90people as soon as possible trucking companies, you know, hiring retailers,hiring. So. So this reopening of our economy is very, very real. And so that'swhat the PEO's are ready, getting ready for.

[00:24:56] And what's key to that is employees are gonnahave choices, [00:25:00] people that are now getting reemployed, they're gonnahave choices of where to work. And so having a robust benefit plan. Is going tobe a very important part of it, right. If I can get $15 an hour at three orfour different places, but that one place is going to give me $15 an hour, plusa really good health plan.

[00:25:17] That's where I'm going. Right. And so if I'm aPEO that can source that for its clients, right. That's going to be a competitiveadvantage. So, so all the conversations right now, It was, how can we make ourclients, the employer or clients of the PEO competitive in their attractingtalent, back to their workplace, back to their offices, back to therestaurants, back to their stores to be employed, which is going to be a real,it's going to be a war for talent right now.

[00:25:49] Yeah, it's interesting that you say it's it's itseems to be a remarkable recovery here from a economic perspective, right? It'sa little over a year ago, we, we talked about [00:26:00] recession, right? Andnow for employment in the United States, this is inside again. And to yourpoint. Wolf's talent. How, how can you retain and attract the best talent?

[00:26:11] Right. Um, this is certainly a hot topic, right?Um, for fall out of us, but, but it's, it's really a great news story, but itcan also be, it also presents opportunities. To take advantage of, and if folksignore it or don't prepare properly for it, if they're not, they're going to loseout, they're gonna be winners and losers.

[00:26:32] So the PEOs that are positioned for that aregonna be the ones that again, have the resources, the processes, and thebenefit programming in place to capitalize that. Yeah. And if, if you, if we'retalking about trends, right? I mean, one of these. What would it be here inquite perfectly here it's like attracting and retain the best talent right now,regardless of the location.

[00:26:52] Right? That is certainly something that thepandemic has shown us depending on the position and the job profile remote[00:27:00] work can work. Right. And how can PEO’s uh, support their employersto do that effectively? Yeah. So certainly what we, we've all experienced thatas one of the more positive aspects of coming out of a pandemic is the abilityto be remote and still be productive.

[00:27:17] And so technology, right? It has to be the orderof the day, PEOs that have not yet gotten as advanced technologically in, inall of their systems are finding they need to step that up. And, and whether itbe onboarding technology, whether it be ongoing, uh, employee management,technology, communication technology, Meeting technologies, which we wereaccustomed to now.

[00:27:39] So the PTO needs to be hat can't be an impedimentat a minimum, has to be neutral in terms of not being an adverse environmentfor that workforce, but ideally being a positive contributor to theirefficiency, their effectiveness, and the other thing that the PEO could also,uh, be cognizant of. And this comes back to the [00:28:00] employee benefitsdynamic is we've also studies have now shown that.

[00:28:04] People are not only more efficient, but they'reworking more hours by there not being a physical separation from their home intheir workplace. So employee assistance program, mental health, stressmanagement resources as part of a proper benefit strategy is more and moreimportant. And so that's very real because you're not going to have necessarilyeverybody at the physical location where they're taking work breaks or takinglunch breaks or physically away from work.

[00:28:32] You're not having that supervisory oversight tomanage that. And people will, there'll be harsh on themselves. So we need, weneed those types of mental health strategies to help people cope with thisremote workforce environment. I couldn't agree more. Right. I think your workfrom home on the one hand, like, you know, it provides flexibility, right.

[00:28:51] And the employees don't have to commutepotentially. Right. But, uh, that's the flip side to that as well. Right? Soyour point studies show that like, [00:29:00] People didn't re speaking worklong hours. Mental health is a, it's a, it's a very, very important componentthere, right? Because otherwise, like your business and private life kind oflike yeah.

[00:29:11] Uh, mushed together as one. Right. And I thinkit's, it's important for the employers as well, too, to have a separation andhave a full rich life. And it's shown that it's also not just a doing the rightthing concept, you know, if you want to look at it from a practical dollars andcents perspective, The quality of work deteriorates, right?

[00:29:32] If people are just pushing volume and not takingbreaks, any athlete, any actor, any professional will tell you that if youdon't slow it down and step away, then the quality of what you're doingdeteriorates will the same is happening with people that are just constantlyworking because it's to walk into their home office.

[00:29:51] Where their computer is five steps away is easy,but again, they're not always at their best. So we've gotta be cognizant of howto manage that remote [00:30:00] worker. We at thrive pass, I've come to theconclusion to, we will we'll follow like a hybrid approach, right? We'll stillkeep our main hub offices in the United States and twin cities, Denver, butthen also.

[00:30:12] Totally open for remote work. Right. I think wehave, we have seen a phenomenal talent coming on board because of that. Right.But now the question, all of us is how, how do you, how do you manage that,that hybrid successfully? Right. And, uh, I think it will be important to flypeople in for certain events, right.

[00:30:31] Or, or travel more and spend time together in theoffice specifically to. Builds relationships. I think innovation sometimesmight be hard on zoom, right. Might be a little bit easier to do in person. SoI think the next 12 to 24 months will be quite interesting, right. To see how,how the work shifts and what are the best models for this.

[00:30:52] It's true. And then again, the PDO, his role inthat will be to help facilitate support, whatever [00:31:00] direction thatemployer chooses to take. Right. If you're a restaurant, right? You're notremote, you know, physically in place. Right. So you're going to have differentindustries with different needs. And as a CEO, how are you going to adapt tothat diversity?

[00:31:12] Tim? Thank you so much fall for your time today.It was a pleasure to have you on the show and where can people find you if theywant to learn more? Well, thank you, Andrea. So it was great to be here. Ienjoyed the conversation again, I can be reached at my email, which is JO'Connor, J O C O N N O R@cbiz.com jO'Connor@CBIZ.com.

[00:31:37] Uh, where you can find us on ourwebsite@wwwdotsiemens.com. This podcast is sponsored by strive. Pass a trustedPEO partner for employee benefits from pre-tax accounts to call byadministration drive past empowers employees to strive through exceptionalservice in innovative technology, more@thrivepass.com.

[00:32:00] [00:32:00] Thanks for listening to today'sepisode, don't forget to subscribe and visit us at peo-podcast.com. To learnmore. I'm Andreas Deptolla and this is The PEO Podcast. We'll see you nexttime. .